More South Coast SEO wins (and SEO fails!)

By | Batemans Bay, Bega, Bermagui, Canberra, Narooma, Narooma and South Coast, Search Engine Optimisation, South Coast, Web Design, Wordpress

Winning at Search Engine Optimisation

Commit to content and a long haul

I’d like to showcase two case studies of customers on our search term monitoring software. We built both websites, and optimised them for a range of website keywords.

Both sites were:

  • Built using similar on-page optimisation methods
  • Optimised for similar locality keywords (e.g South Coast, Batemans Bay, Narooma)
  • Hosted on the same high speed servers, on the same I.P address range
  • Enhanced with the same performance tweaks – caching, image optimisation, etc
  • Filled with great, well structured content, headings, page titles etc

A good start right? 

A very good start. In fact, we find in general, using the above points and a good content creation program that over time a website will be ranking on page one for not only for competitive keyword phrases, but a broad spectrum of “long tail” phrases within months (and sometimes weeks). Depending on the competition, if you adhere to a strategy where you deliver great content to a schedule, over 6-12 months you’re starting to look at #1 and #2 positions for these keywords. It’s not guaranteed, but the premise is pretty basic; it’s a long haul where provided your website is built well, content is king.

So without further ado, let’s look at some real results…

Customer #1

SEO WIN - South Coast search optimisation results chart

Good content, no quick fixes

The above image shows our clients rankings. Some key pointers – look at the column 2nd from the right, “Initial Rank”. This is the first value recorded for these search words before we began optimising the new site. Compare those to the “Current Rank” to see what the work has done. Loads right? Page 1 city!

Search term rankings are always in a state of flux, which is why we have “Current Rank” and “Highest Rank” to keep track of where we’re at. You can see here, the positioning for most terms is relatively stable, and mainly in the top 1-4 positions on Google.

 

Customer #2

SEO Failure - chart of rankings by competitor

Don’t try quick fixes…

The above image shows our other client’s rankings. Uh-oh.

This site was new, and had a new domain name – which admittedly gave it a tougher start. However, it was well on it’s way to ranking on page 1 – needing an estimated 2-3 months work to do so.  Unfortunately, the client was lured in by an email claiming to boost search rankings, and the client paid the down payment.

In this case, look at the “Highest Rank”. We’d placed the site on page 2 (some other, less common terms were on page 1) within weeks, for a brand new site and new domain (older sites with history rank with less effort). Now, in the last few weeks – after months of “optimisation” by an offshore SEO team, take a look at the Current Rank. They now have 90{7cc85a26184ee315c5bd7accd1f336d9c65e0bf9730b6541f835ca07ee6d1945} of the keyword terms sitting at page 9, 10 or beyond. That is what I would call a massive failure and waste of money. I don’t need to, but I’m tracking this so that I can provide my customer some evidence of this failure so that they can hopefully recoup some money one day.

Many of these search optimisation ‘experts’ have similar traits and do similar things:

  • They spam your email box
  • They cold call you
  • They are offshore
  • They offer zero accountability
  • They have aggressive sales tactics and techno-babble consumers
  • They spam the internet with dodgy content to boost your rankings – Google is not fooled
  • Their backlinks come from obscure sites and offer little value
  • and worse still, they might
    • register a new web address (because.. reasons, uh huh)  and redirect to it
    • build a new “optimised” site… unnecessarily
    • put you on some hosting plan, and trap you in
    • be mysteriously unavailable when you try to bail out

Sounds great! Where do I sign!

The crazy thing is, looking at the new, new site prepared for my client, I can see they removed all of the great built in optimisation we already provided, and the client had already paid for. To quote Gwen Stefani, this sh*t is bananas.

Moral of the story? Stick to a local provider who appears to know what they’re doing for your local keywords. And one that is actually accountable for their actions.

Ahem!

SEO chart - Fisse Design rankings

 

Local South Coast search engine optimisation wins

By | Batemans Bay, Narooma and South Coast, Search Engine Optimisation, South Coast, Web Design, Wordpress

Not another search engine optimisation article!

Oh yes – the internet is absolutely littered with search engine optimisation articles; there’s how-to-guides, theories and debates about hidden meanings in every word Matt Cutts from Google utters. There’s articles about doing it the right way (White Hat search optimisation) and the fraternity that goes to the dark side (Black Hat) who go to extensive lengths to trick the system for good rankings. All of us web designers and digital agencies keep up to date with all of the latest news in this field and we’re constantly tasked to evaluate new things to stay ahead of the pack. There is no doubt that all of my web designer colleagues on the South Coast will agree with this!

Truth is though, the best way to know how it works is to be there for the long haul, have a long established sense of how it has worked over time and have an understanding of the impact of some of the more recent changes (most obviously, the Google Penguin update a few years ago). It’s most certainly not, but for me search optimisation almost becomes a feeling – it flows through in your copywriting style, with a good sense of keyword density, the code optimising you do and the new things you try outside of what you’ll find already written for you on Google.

While I am not the Obi Wan Kenobi of SEO with some kind of search optimisation mind-trick wizardry, we’ve got an excellent understanding of what actually works and doesn’t, what can be done in a practical sense and what can be done if you’ve got a higher budget. Good optimisation is not trying to follow some magic formula, because if there were an optimum one it’d change too frequently… not only that, it can be a vastly different exercise on a case to case basis.

My first foray into search engine optimisation was when Altavista was still around and it was the very early days of Google. Working with my colleague Rob Joyner, our small multimedia firm – Lime Multimedia – ranked #1 for the term “Sydney Multimedia” and sat around position 3 or 4 for “Sydney Web Design”. We were very young, early 20s – if only we knew the true potential of what we were sitting on! For these kinds of terms these days, it can be a massive undertaking to rank well and really it’s the realm of multi-million dollar business. This is why, for smaller businesses with a lower marketing budget, localised search terms are a winner. These are normally words that convey your industry or service combined with suburb names or town names. This is where you can have some great wins and truly start to see increased traffic to your website.

We’ll follow up on this article next week with some practical search engine ranking optimisation methods that can be accomplished from home, or through the help of a web developer.

Our search engine ranking wins – South Coast region

We’re confident in our ability to improve your search engine rankings. The proof’s in the pudding though… so here’s some keywords we’ve measured over various sites (results accurate as of 20/09/2016). These are just a few sites we’ve built, maintained and improved upon.

Batemans Bay Web Design - Batemans Bay Cycles

Batemans Bay Cycles | batemansbaycycles.com.au

Overview – we rebuilt an outdated, unoptimised site and included our basic search optimisation service

An improvement over 2 weeks, with everything singing within 1 month. This site ranks #1 for over 5 key terms, and within the top 4 for most other bike/cycling related terms for the Batemans Bay locality.

  • #1 Batemans Bay Bike Shop
  • #1 Batemans Bay Bikes
  • #1 Bike Shop Batemans Bay
  • #1 Batemans Bay Bike Hire
  • #1 Batemans Bay Bike Service / Batemans Bay Bike Servicing
  • #3 Bike Trail Batemans Bay
  • #4 Bike Riding Batemans Bay
  • #4 Cycling Batemans Bay

Narooma Building Services - Trades & Building websites

Narooma Building Services | naroomabuildingservices.com.au

Overview – new site build with a new domain name and absolutely no search engine presence.

Within 4 weeks it started to rank, and around 2 months page one results.  This site is over 2 years old and it’s rankings are starting to slip, however it still ranks on the front page for most of the original terms:

  • #1 Narooma Construction
  • #2 Narooma Builders
  • #3 Narooma Renovations
  • #7 Narooma Commercial Builder

Island Charters Narooma Website Design

Island Charters Narooma | islandchartersnarooma.com.au

Overview – low budget search optimisation.

Starting point was most terms being found at the bottom of page 1, or on page 2 and 3. We rebuilt the site and gave some practical tips to keep the rankings up. Now we have over 20 keyword phrases at #1, #2 and #3, including:

  • #1 Narooma Diving / Diving Narooma
  • #1 Scuba Diving Narooma
  • #2 Narooma Snorkeling / Snorkeling Narooma
  • #2 Narooma Charter Tours / Narooma Charters
  • #3 Whale Watching Narooma / Whale Watching Narooma
  • #3 Fishing Narooma
  • #3 Montague Island Tours

South Coast - Tilba Web Design

Tilba Online | tilba.com.au

Overview – over 40 keyword phrases at #1, including:

  • #1 Tilba
  • #1 Tilba Accommodation
  • #1 Book Tilba Accommodation
  • #1 Tilba Holiday Accommodation
  • #1 Tilba Farm Stay
  • #1 Tilba Holiday
  • #1 Tilba Stays
  • #1 Things to do in Tilba
  • #1 Tilba Tilba
  • #1 Central Tilba
  • #1 Find Tilba
  • #1 Tilba Map
  • #1 Tilba Wine

And there’s more…

We’ve plenty more sites that have performed well that we’d be happy to show you in person. So if you’d like to discuss your digital marketing options please feel free to call us on 1300 799 688 and make an appointment.

2 WordPress myths and costly pitfalls of custom CMS systems

By | Narooma and South Coast, Sydney and Melbourne, Web Design, Wordpress

Recently I’ve come across web development shops that have an aggressive stance towards open source content management systems, such as WordPress and Joomla – touting that they are somehow inferior, slow and confine the output of the creatives designing and developing their product within the boundaries of pre-built themes.

In practice, these are baseless myths and they’re perpetrated by an increasingly isolated bunch of developers that promote their own, home-grown content management systems. Thankfully we don’t get a whole lot of this on the South Coast but we do see it coming from various agencies in the big cities.

While we don’t use it exclusively, we use WordPress a lot – and one reason is because of its sheer popularity with our clients. In this post, I provide some examples that debunk a few myths surrounding WordPress, and later I’ll explain why anyone would want to convey this message.

Myth #1 – Using WordPress means your creativity is hampered by a pre-existing theme.

Decent web developers don’t use pre-built templates or at the very least use them out of the box. When we use WordPress, for many lower budget sites we use a range of frameworks or themes that speed up the development process and we’ll work upwards from there.

Most of the time, this literally means we can have very basic page layouts – (like our own site for the moment!) – with headers, navigation, sidebars and footer layouts in place. Sometimes, it means we can whip up a rough, working prototype website for clients that need a feel for the site, or run it past a focus group before any serious design work ensues.

Normally, we’ll go through a wireframe and design process until it is approved. Good web design businesses focus on the client, their needs and craft beautiful designs without thinking about any constraints. On approval, we apply those designs, details and extra functionality into the WordPress theme framework we’re using that’s suitable for the project – and that will require coding with HTML, CSS, Javascript and PHP.

So does using WordPress mean you’re stuck with the design or functionality of a theme? No way. Only if you’re doing it yourself or you’re using a web designer with no coding skills.

Myth #2 – WordPress is slow, and so are pre-built themes

With any site on any framework, it’s as slow as you make it. If you fill up an HTML site with multiple CSS files, multiple javascripts, massive unoptimised images and loading fonts and these types of resources – then yes, it will be slow.

There’s another part to it though, and that’s behind the scenes. WordPress contains a heap of processes for functionality you may not necessarily use on your website. This can mean the database is not 100{7cc85a26184ee315c5bd7accd1f336d9c65e0bf9730b6541f835ca07ee6d1945} optimised for speedy operation and there are redundant PHP processes that slow things down server side. The practical workaround, that’s effective for millions of sites around the world, is to use caching. And it can be done really well.

We can cache database objects so its not working hard, cache theme resources and cache pages so they’re rendered from HTML files.  With javascript & css minification the number of resources loading on a page at once is reduced. Of course, reducing the amount of unnecessary CSS and code so you don’t have a bloated theme in the first place is a given. At this point, the difference in reality becomes harder and harder to determine.

Using a clean, well coded theme and optimised images, we put a WordPress site to the test using www.pingdom.com’s speed test utility… and we put it up against a web design agency’s site that uses their home-grown CMS system. The results?

  • Custom CMS – load speed: 563ms load time. (nice, rapid!)
  • WordPress CMS – load speed: 695ms load time (slower, but rapid!)

Repeated tests yielded similar results. The site on the custom CMS loaded fewer javascripts and resource files, and was slightly smaller in total, combined file size. While smaller, it was faster, no doubt. By 130 odd milliseconds. To put this into context, throwing a few 200kb photos on your homepage might blow this out by another half second. So do we really need to say WordPress is slow?

No.  It’s just a weird kind of developer snobbery, and in practice it’s basically rubbish. 

So… if it isn’t slow, and you can design and build whatever you want… why say it?

Here’s why – and having worked at agencies around the place, it’s the oldest trick in the book. 

1. They’re literally forcing you to stick with them.

Yep. If they’ve got a custom CMS, that means they’ll be managing it on their own servers. And that means, in the majority of cases, your website will only work on their server.

If you have a disagreement, or they raise their prices, and you want to change provider – your website may as well be thrown in the bin. It can’t be hosted anywhere else – at best you could grab some text, images and HTML code and hand over to another developer to convert into your preferred open-source system. This can cost thousands.

2. They’ll make money through expensive hosting

Your hosting environment will be unique, and the agency will be monitoring it and managing this specific environment themselves. Having worked in this way for agencies around Australia, it’s a massive exercise and a costly one. How much do you think IT infrastructure support specialists and dedicated developers to support the custom CMS cost annually?

This generally means your hosting will be more costly. And not only will you be paying more than regular hosting, there’s nothing you can do about it – your website will only work on their servers. Sometimes the CMS’s advantages will be spruiked to justify the costs – whether it’s a special analytics interface or integration with a 3rd party API (WordPress can do all of that). Or it might be the costs are hidden; wrapped up in an ongoing maintenance plan or service level agreement.

Oranges for oranges though – it’s more expensive. And there’s nothing you can do about it.

At Fisse Design, our managed hosting services have no contract – you can leave at any time and work with your preferred supplier. We’re confident most developers can pick up where we left off, grab the website and place it on any old standard web hosting plan. We like to think that you stay with us because our service is good and well priced… not because you’re forced with us. That’d be pretty nasty.

3. Expensive website builds and upgrades

Because no one else in the world will be using the same custom content management system, no one else can build your site or manage design updates or functionality upgrades to your site. They probably wouldn’t even be granted access. Being specialised introduces costs, and why wouldn’t you – when you’re the only operators in the world building these specialised websites.

That’s why you’ll find the cost of entry, i.e. your first website build, is already more expensive. And if you’ve built say, a $15-20,000 website with them, how can you say no to $5000 worth of updates that in a global marketplace, might only be worth $1000. You’re stuck.

WordPress and other popular, open-source content management systems have millions of developers around the world contributing – building snippets of code that are available to use and reducing the development time on projects. This translates to a cost benefit to you – and that’s why as a general trend websites are cheaper compared to 90s and noughties.

So there you have it.

Next time you read about these mythical failings of open source content management systems, just have a think about why a salesman would need to do so (when selling the benefits of their own bespoke content management system). Ask yourself the following questions:

  • If it’s so good, why is no one else in the world is using it?
  • How much will it cost me for website updates?
  • Can’t these features be offered via an open source CMS, like WordPress?
  • How much will it cost me for ongoing hosting and maintenance?
  • Can I leave this supplier?
  • Have you talked with anyone else to guide your decision… or only the salesman?

Building custom websites on the South Coast!

Yes – and would you believe it, we can build you a custom website!

It will be custom, built completely from scratch if necessary. We can work out the functionality, layout, design – and you can have as much input as you want. Then, it can be built on an appropriate open-source content management system and hosted wherever you want. Click here for more info!

 

New gallery of featured South Coast sites

By | e-Commerce, Graphic Design, Narooma and South Coast, Web Design, Wordpress

New project localities sections.

With our recent rebuild we’ve been restructuring our website portfolio so they can be sorted by locality.

While we’re not quite there yet (soft launch!) – we’ve broken down some of our key projects into locality so you can browse through projects in areas near you. Hopefully this will help you discover businesses you’re familiar that we’ve done some work for. We hope you take the time to look at our designs here and browse through the various localities listed.

In the last 3 years, we’ve been lucky enough to complete work all across the Far South Coast of NSW – including Batemans Bay, Moruya, Merimbula, Bega and Narooma. Our focus will always be regional areas but we also handle projects in the big smoke from time to time! Click here for a downloadable overview featuring sample of our work from the region.

Top 6 All in One Migration problem fixes

By | Tutorials, Web Design, Wordpress

Having trouble importing or exporting your WordPress site?

Here’s 6 quick things to quickly check using All in One Migration that may be the cause of the dreaded hanging issue – importing or exporting.

1. Server space.

As the backup process takes a copy of your WordPress installation, theme files, plugins and uploads (if you’ve opted for these) you will need to have at least double the storage space available on your hosting account. Even if you download the file, it still stores the file in a temporary folder (located in its plugin directory). The same occurs for those uploading to Amazon or Google etc with the optional extension plugins. So just make sure you have double the website space on the initial (or staging) and receiving server.

2. Timeout issues.

Modify your .htaccess in the root WordPress directory to increase the time available to process the backup. You can do this by accessing cPanel and opening either the root directory or WordPress installation directory. You’ll need to have your cPanel File broswer option checked to view all hidden files (.htaccess).

Add this to your .htaccess – 

php_value max_execution_time 3600
php_value max_input_time 3600
php_value session.gc_maxlifetime 3600

This is overkill, so please view this as a temporary modification to your .htaccess.

3. Forbidden access.

Have you hardened your WordPress install? A lot of the time, this involves strict .htaccess rules for the /wp-includes folder. This can prevent the backup from working.

4. Can’t read database.

You may have also placed rules on wp-config.php, preventing it to be readable by anything other than WordPress. All in One migration will need to read it so that it can see the database credentials, to access, read and backup your database. It’ll need this to restore it too.

5. Plugin and Theme conflicts

You can try disabling all of your plugins and selecting a default WordPress theme. Be aware, if you’re using a complex theme that has many configuration settings – you may want to export or copy configuration settings as these can be lost. You can also lose widget and permalink settings when switching themes.

6. All in One Plugin version.

If all else fails, download an older version of the plugin. The older 2.14 version saves the backups as ZIP files, not the proprietory .wpress file and has fewer conflicts than the latest versions.

What next?

Generally we only use All in One Migration for convenient migrations or backups. We’ve worked on a few servers where there’s no easy fix, and it’s simply easier to download the WordPress database manually and find/replace all instances of the domain name, and reconnecting the credentials on the new host via config.php. I agree – this can be painful if you’re in a rush – we’ve found UpdraftPlus is not a bad alternative. You can buy the Migrate upgrade which allows pipes the website backup straight across to the new host (server to server, no downloading and reuploading!).

Hope this helps! Share or comment if it does! :)

 

Retail Training Australia – website launch

By | Graphic Design, Narooma and South Coast, Search Engine Optimisation, Web Design

New site for Retail Training Australia, Batemans Bay.

At Adrian Fisse Design we’re pleased to announce the launch of the new Retail Training Australia website. Check it out at www.retailtrainingaustralia.com.au.

After an initial brief, we provided a functional specification and followed up with some wireframe sketches. With some minor adjustments to the wireframe to ensure we were all on the same page, we went ahead with a new design that was in keeping with the old branding and general feel.

Below are the wireframe we provided RTA, before designing anything. Refining a rough layout document like this is our way of spending the maximum time & budget on the formal design and reducing revisions to basic layout work.

Freshened up design aside, the main thing, for Retail Training Australia, was they had the ability to easily update the site on their content management system – giving them the ability to add new training courses in and update pricing and details concerning changes in government legislation.

Using our new design, we built the website theme using the design that was tailored to their requirements. The website adapts and resizes for large desktops, notebooks, tablets and mobile, using an up to date look and feel that looks excellent whoever is looking at it. It’s RSS feed for new content will be used to automate Facebook and Twitter posts as part of RTA’s significant social media effort.

After a very quick training session on the CMS, we left these guys on their way – Geoff and the team in Batemans Bay have been great to work with, and we wish them the very best with their new site.

Adult Education’s new website – Batemans Bay & Bega

By | Narooma and South Coast, Responsive and Mobile, Search Engine Optimisation, Web Design

Adrian Fisse Design is proud to announce the recent release of a new website for EAEC (Eurobodalla Adult Education Centre). Well known in this region, the Centre is huge and provides courses and training for all locals from their main centres in Batemans Bay and Bega. See the design here – EAEC website.

After receiving a detailed list of requirements and a good general brief, I discussed the project at length with Mark Brantingham, the centre’s operations manager. We went through a few iterations of my website wireframes and I was delighted to engage with this client – they had some great points of view and we were able to flesh out key structural changes on the site before the actual design work started. This is one of the keys to the successful design of any website project.

The website design is based on their existing brand, including their trademark vibrant green and purple. Based on the wireframes we did some iterations of the design before starting any development work, including a specific design layout for smartphone presentation.

Adult Ed use a large spreadsheet to manage courses, which is the basis for many functions internally and with other suppliers. These include a website portal for online course registration (soon to be integrated with the main site), brochure printers and more. Mark expressed their desire to somehow import the courses from spreadsheet, into a new website. In turn, we provided a solution that is completely manageable by Adult Ed staff, and does the following:

  • Creates new course pages for any new item in the spreadsheet
  • Edits or deletes courses that are changed or removed
  • Is able to assign an image from the spreadsheet to display on the course
  • Creates a window to register online, and complete the course on a 3rd party course portal they use
  • Maps key course details to specific areas in the website design developed – including course location, cost, trainer / tutor, requirements and times and dates
  • And many other conditional features to suit the requirements of their business.

After the website was developed, I visited the centre in Batemans Bay to train a small group of 5 staff, each with varying levels of experience. In the training session, we covered website editing basics – creating hyperlinks, new pages, adding images and video, as well as managing the course import feed. It was also a great session to demonstrate the site in full, and cover off on any questions about it.

In all, a good project and I really wish the lovely team at Adult Ed the best. I’ve found it immensely satisfying to help produce a site that will hopefully have a positive impact on our community for years to come.

Retail Training Australia website – coming soon

By | Batemans Bay, Graphic Design, Responsive and Mobile, Search Engine Optimisation, South Coast, Web Design

Working with Geoff Hatton of Retail Training Australia in Batemans Bay, Adrian Fisse Design is producing a revamped website for Eurobodalla’s leading, national education provider in the Retail Sector.

Retail Training Australia provide online training packages to help businesses improve the performance of their staff members. With various e-learning strategies and customised courses that are tailored for individual needs, RTA has access to Government Subsidies to ensure their professional services are not a costly burden.

To date, we have scoped out the requirements of the project, including integration of online forms for grant eligibility and easily editable course descriptions. We’ve sketched out the website wireframes and what is to be presented on mobile devices. Search Engine Optimisation concerns have been covered as well as usability on all devices with an emphasis on calls to action. Design and development starts in January – stay tuned!

New website grant from Voiceless at Sydney Awards

By | Responsive and Mobile, Sydney and Melbourne, Web Design

Here at Adrian Fisse Design, we’re proud to announce a grant that’s been awarded at the Voiceless 2013 Awards last Thursday Night in Sydney. Working directly with the Australian Animal Protection Law Journal (AALPJ), we’ll be developing a website containing extracts and archives of law journals pertaining to animal welfare legislation in Australia.

A key component to the success of the site will be making the site completely responsive, that is mobile and tablet ready, providing a customised article taxonomy (categorisation of articles) and powerful search functionality. The website will have powerful data conversion facilities allowing Word document formats to be parsed into other industry standard archival document types suitable for web publishing, and be readily updatable by the Journal’s editor, John Mancy.

While the site is primarily about law, and catering to students, animal rights advocates and law firms with an abundance of data, it will also provide other animal welfare angles such as best practice guidelines for the production / manufacture of animal based products and highlight ethical businesses in Australia.

We will be assisting AALPJ with launch materials for universities, social media and email campaigns. What an exciting opportunity – development starts early next year.

Bermagui Four Winds Festival Website

By | Bermagui, South Coast, Web Design, Wordpress

What a hive of activity it is in this region! Lately, I’ve made few trips south, 40 min or so (from Narooma to Bermagui) to discuss various website enhancements with the Four Winds Festival team.

Coming around mid November, I’m assisting them with a basic design revamp for their site and new content including the new programme for 2014, the participating artists and a great new look and feel that helps standardise the artwork for the festival across all mediums.

We’ve got bigger plans for the new year, with a brand new website on the cards… for now though, it really is lovely to work with these wonderful & talented people. I tell you what, I’m pretty happy with my current line of work – when a meeting involves driving to such a beautiful part of the world and enjoying lunch in the sun with the family, what’s not to like?

Those who don’t know much about Four Winds, I recommend taking a look at their current website and checking it out. It showcases talent from the South Coast and all kinds of music – all within a spectacular natural auditorium with tiered seating on the grassy banks. I for one will be there with bells on, enjoying a hamper and a hearty red!

In other news… the new Narooma Chamber of Commerce and Tourism site is coming along very nicely… and I’m polishing off the new Oyster festival website too. I’ll publish some more detail on those soon.